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Post by walker on Aug 18, 2006 0:59:16 GMT -5
I've been sad to be alone, with all my secrets -- silly and questionably profound -- quiet in myself and long without expression to a gentler other. And yet, to experience longing with a full store of youth is such jaded melancholy: a piercing, pleasant sadness, a loner's intoxication, a dream-like state, but still in all the best senses a dream. I've observed the opposite joys of chase and capture: the possibility of possession and the certainty of satiation. The former is so heavenly in its idealism, the latter so tangible, but abstract too, in memory and mind: had, having and in quest to have all one in the heart and soul. Is it better to be unsatisfied young and later requited, or wedded young and at leisure to wish for the pains of lonely youth? Such overblown options, I'm sure you're thinking. I am overblown myself, excessive bodily and of mental impurities filled. But I do love this life so, when there's only a pinch of humility to me. I could wish for a higher life and treasure it better, but not so dearly as I do this one poorly. What do you think: married, or bittersweetly alone? Katycarl, you will know. And you other young men and ladies, you can help, too.
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Post by deirdre on Aug 19, 2006 14:25:38 GMT -5
Whatever is God's will is better. If one were alive to God's will, then at the right time, in the right place, and for the right reasons, wouldn't you pursue marriage? And if it were not God's will, then you wouldn't you abstain? So it isn't a question of you being bitersweetly alone or married, but of whether God would have you alone or married. This presupposes that you are actively cooperating with God - so it does remain your choice.
This all sounds well and good, simple, obvious. But then, the will of God often seems opaque. So how is one to tell? Prayer. Mmm. And not working oneself into a tizzy and spazzing out - scrutinizing things too closely and reading into little signs some grandiose meaning. Just a simple, moderate, prayerful life will do.
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Post by katycarl on Aug 19, 2006 20:01:53 GMT -5
I echo everything Deidre said -- couldn't have said it better. Another thing about discerning the path of your life is to remember that it's not a choice between "married" or "alone." Nor is it, as the title of the TV show would seem to suggest, "God or the girl." In either state of life, you will be accompanied by Someone who is closer to you than you are to yourself. It is simply a matter of how He chooses to make Himself present to you.
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Post by walker on Aug 20, 2006 1:57:45 GMT -5
"God's will" is no answer. "How do I rise?" "God's will." "How do I fall?" "God's will." "How do I tell the time of day?" "God's will." More variation than this ladies, please.
I suppose the question is an idle one. I'm sure women never think in such terms. After all, history and literature are filled with men reluctant to give up their bachelorhood. There really is no companionate idea in books for "bachelorettehood". A favorite poem of mine by a favorite poet interprets the spirit of my contemplations, albeit only one half, the unromantic side, on the subject.
The Bachelor's Dream by Thomas Hood
My pipe is lit, my grog is mixed, My curtains drawn and all is snug; Old Puss is in her elbow-chair, And Tray is sitting on the rug. Last night I had a curious dream, Miss Susan Bates was Mistress Mogg-- What d'ye think of that, my cat? What d'ye think of that, my dog?
She looked so fair, she sang so well, I could but woo and she was won; Myself in blue, the bride in white, The ring was placed, the deed was done! Away we went in chaise-and-four, As fas as grinning boys could flog-- What d'ye think of that, my cat? What d'ye think of that, my dog?
At times we had a spar, and then Mama must mingle in the song-- The sister took a sister's part-- The maid declared her master wrong-- The parrot learned to call me "Fool!" My life was like a London fog-- What d'ye think of that, my cat? What d'ye think of that, my dog?
My Susan's taste was superfine, As proved by bills that had no end; I never had a decent coat-- I never had a coin to spend! She forced me to resign my club, Lay down my pipe, retrench my grog-- What d'ye think of that, my cat? What d'ye think of that, my dog?
Each Sunday night we gave a rout To fops and flirts, a pretty list; And when I tried to steal away, I found my study full of whist! Then, first to come, and last to go, There always was a Captain Hogg-- What d'ye think of that, my cat? What d'ye think of that, my dog?
Now was not that an awful dream For one who single is and snug-- With Pussy in the elbow-chair, And Tray reposing on the rug?-- If I must totter down the hill, 'Tis safest done without a clog-- What d'ye think of that, my cat? What d'ye think of that, my dog?
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Post by deirdre on Aug 20, 2006 3:21:51 GMT -5
Perhaps you could clarify your question, then? For I'm not at all sure that "God's will" is not the answer. It is a general answer. It is one that can be applied to many things ("Why does the sun rise?"). But when you are asking a question as to which route one should follow, then the route illumined by the love of God seems to be the better. And then, how should one discern the particular state in which you find yourself and tell you which is the proper path? A general answer seems to be the only answer.
As a young bachelorette, I've experienced some of the feeling of bitersweetness - but I would not regret giving it up for someone. I would be happy to be rid of it. It doesn't seem safe, somehow, to become wrapt up in oneself so much that opportunities of love might be denied or left un-pursued on the basis of what-one-believes-will-be-a-source-of-nostalgia. Because our freedom is given in order for us to love. And though being a bachelorette may be well and good, it seems the better joy is to simply love the other and to forget the self.
I may, of course, be misunderstanding your question and have missed the mark entirely - in which case, do forgive this well-meant but ultimately fruitless post.
P.S. This quote from Trollope seems apt:
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Post by walker on Aug 20, 2006 21:33:57 GMT -5
Yes, I should be tasked with asking a question and assailing the answerers. I'm a charlatan, a rogue, a Tartuffe!
Blame it on my spleen. That was a marvelously good quote, deidre, by the way. I'm an idle asker of idler questions. Pay me no mind. I'm fickle, fickle, fickle. Hot and cold by turns, and out of all compass.
I need me an anchor to balance my vagaries. I am far too romantic and far too long without any romance. I am taxed in mind, tied in heart, and tedious in typing. I must make an end to my bachelorhood, or raise the flag of unbitten singlehood and cry "March! March! March!"
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Post by cristina on Aug 20, 2006 21:38:29 GMT -5
Hi! I'm afraid I'm gonna be the third lady who's gonna answer "God's will." I've asked my spritual director the same question about myself and that's what he told me.
Marriage is a vocation, and people contemplating marriage should go through the same discernment process that those contemplating priesthood or the religious life should go through: asking yourself (and a spiritual director) if you're really up to the demands of married life and the responsibilities of raising a family.
Being a bachelor does not necessarily entail loneliness and a feeling of being unfulfilled. I know many people who are single and yet find a lot of fulfillment: dedicating themselves to their work, the care of their parents and siblings, volunteering, etc. Bachelorhood is not what brings loneliness; it's selfishness that brings loneliness. Marriage for selfish reasons could also bring loneliness.
Perhaps the reason we women tend to answer the question the way we do is that -- pardon the rather old-fashioned view, but I think it's still true -- in courtship, most of the time it's not we who do the searching and wooing. According to social convention, we're not the ones who court the men who strike our fancy; we wait for men to court us. If no one comes, then obviously it's God's will. I'm not saying it's not true; I'm just explaining why we women tend to understand it better.
Have you tried getting the male perspective?
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Post by katycarl on Aug 24, 2006 1:15:58 GMT -5
I don't know about there being no hesitation for marriage on the woman's part. In fact, I think it's more common nowadays for women to hesitate than for men. "Protect yourselves" is the reigning message, both from the dominant culture that would have us selfishly seize our own hearts for ourselves and ourselves only, making any romantic conquests we like but remaining unmoved, and from the Christian culture which realizes the damaging nature of this manhunt but sometimes goes too far in asking us to hold back our hearts in a different and better way.
I have read trashy three-dollar magazines (Cosmo Girl, Glamour) that taught, in ludicrous detail that nevertheless I have observed girls actually putting into action, how to use feminine power in all the wrong ways to ensnare and control young men. I have also read prim, pious, large-printed books (cf. "The ABCs of Choosing a Good Husband" and others like it) that contained such dire warnings to young women about giving away your heart that if I hadn't already been engaged when I read them, I might not have become so. They describe an ideal so perfect of what a man should be by the time you even begin to think of dating or "courting" him, that they're basically demanding he be a saint before he buys the ring. Obviously, as Catholics, we don't believe this ideal of holiness is unattainable -- but, as Catholics, we also know that if a man were already perfectly holy, he would have no need of the grace of the sacrament of marriage.
Yes, it's right to be cautious with your heart and with others', whether you are male or female. Yes, it's right to be reasonable and try to look at relationships with a clear mind and heart, not driven by physical passion or overmastering emotion, but proceeding prayerfully and deliberately. But I have to insist, with St. Thomas More as depicted in A Man for All Seasons: "Finally, it isn't a matter of reason. Finally, it's a matter of love."
You can't calculate happiness; you can't put will for the other's good into a spreadsheet or five-year plan; and it's the fallacy of both these views, that they go on as if you could. You can't even promise how you will feel five years from now, let alone fifty, but you can make an act of will toward another person that says, "No matter how my emotions may behave from day to day and year to year, my heart will be yours till we die. I will, with the help of God's grace, love you from this day to that, and I will do everything to see that we both get to love God and each other forever in heaven." You can do this, even though both of you are imperfect and flawed, exactly because of the help of God's grace.
I'm sorry, Walker. This was intended to be a helpful reply and has devolved into a rant. Still, I post it in hopes that it will stir up fruitful discussion.
Also, mark you well that I never uttered a peep about "God's will" in my first comment Of course it was implicit in what I said, but I know how many times I got that answer in my own discernment, and I know how many times it made me fretfully ask: "How?" The "how" is to walk prayerfully with Him and allow Him to be present to you: which is what I did say. That is a slow, difficult and intimately personal process, such that no one can really tell you exactly how -- and that can be frustrating. Yet the guidance of confessors and directors, and the conversation of good friends who know you well, can help show you the way. If there is (as it sounds like there may be) a particular lady in the case, it may help to talk these things through with her as well. If she's not someone with whom you can share these things, then that is something to take under consideration.
Is that more specific?
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Post by Frank on Aug 24, 2006 13:08:44 GMT -5
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Post by katycarl on Aug 24, 2006 15:52:59 GMT -5
What an awesome Kreeft website. I have been wanting to get to know him better for some time, so I'm very glad you posted that, Frank. Thanks.
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Post by walker on Aug 24, 2006 16:44:29 GMT -5
Your answer was perfect, katycarl; very informative. You websites were good too, Frank, thanks.
I like glancing through girl magazines every once in a while. I am not, be it known, "in the hunt" myself right now. But I like the exotic and there are few things more exotic to a male's mind than a female's. A whole jungle tended like a garden. I asked my sister a few days ago about the in's and out's of make-up. It's a science, an art, a wonder! Well, you can't write convincing women without such conversations, to my mind. I've an advantage in having grown up with three girls, sans brothers. I would like to be told one day, like the protagonist in "As Good as it Gets," that I write very convincing women.
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Post by katycarl on Aug 24, 2006 17:17:23 GMT -5
Oh, I think you can write a woman -- a woman like myself, anyway -- without recourse to conversations about makeup. But you're right, it is just that *kind* of conversation, that shows the outlandishly lavish attention to detail whatever it happens to be lavished on and the sense for the overall effect of whatever task is at hand, that makes for a convincing female character.
You're lucky to have the perspective of sisters to refer to. I grew up in a household where my dad was the lone, beleaguered male. In consequence I've been adopting brothers from among my friends since I was quite small and continue to do so to this day. The oddities of the male mind -- so like ours and yet so different! -- have always fascinated me.
And yet it wasn't until I fell in love that I began to write male characters who were really characters and not just caricatures. Odd how that worked. I don't know that that's the solution for everyone, but it certainly was for me.
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